What if DSR was written poorly?

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What if DSR was written poorly?

Post by Cassiopeia on Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:29 pm

I'm going back and forth in PMs with someone at another forum and this question was posed to me last night. I read it before I was about to go to bed and decided to sit on the question and give it some thought. I had never thought about DSR in this scenario so I think you guys may be interested in reading the answer I gave to the following question. Feel free to answer this question yourself, I'm interested in reading what answer you guys would give.

But, what if DSR happened on the show, but was poorly written as you see MSR in the series? You would still defend your belief in this relationship because you believe in it.

No, if the DSR had happened and had been written poorly, I would not like it anymore. There is, of course, always the possibility that if that had happened that I would have shrugged it off and delved into the world of fanfic in order to find something to enjoy about it, but the answer to this question is "no," I don't think that I would like the DSR if it had been written poorly.

Why?

I liked the MSR and wanted to see Mulder and Scully end up together, and after the end of "Amor Fati", I felt that the writers did not handle the relationship well, they - IMO - did not write the relationship well. I didn't like what I saw and I stopped 'shipping the MSR. Not because I didn't like MSR earlier, I did, but because I thought the MSR moments after that last scene between them in "Amor Fati" were not done well (through the rest of season 7, season 8, season 9, and IWTB). To this day I still enjoy the MSR moments through "Amor Fati" even though I classify myself as a MSR Noromo and MS/UST fan.

I made my decision to answer you question with "no" based on my previous experiences with relationships in TV shows that I follow in which I started out liking the idea of a relationship and stopped liking it once I felt it wasn't written well.

This happened to me on "LOST". I 'shipped Sawyer/Kate and then in the series' third season I did not like how the relationship was written and I stopped liking the 'ship. Yes, I can look back at the seasons before season three and still enjoy what made me like Sawyer/Kate in the first place, but I never got back on board the 'ship once I felt the writers didn't handle it well. This is the same story that I have with Mulder/Scully. I can still enjoy what made me like MSR in the first place, but after the "point of no return" (in this case for me it was the "Millennium" kiss that sealed my fate as a Noromo) I have not returned to supporting the relationship.

Another example to support my decision to say "no" to Doggett/Scully if it had been written poorly is my reaction to the main relationship on the TV show "Chuck". In the first few seasons I enjoyed the Chuck/Sarah (will they hook up, or won't they?) potential relationship. This past season I watched the show deteriorate and stray so far away from reasons why I tuned in to watch the show all because the writers chose to shift the focus of their stories to the Chuck/Sarah relationship because they finally hooked up (and then got engaged). I actually began to hate Chuck/Sarah (and thus my liking of the show quickly deteriorated) because of the way in which the writers wrote their relationship and how it shifted the focal point of the show to wedding planning and relationship garbage over spy stories. If it weren't for Adam Baldwin being a regular on the series I'd stop watching all together. Actually... I sort of did stop watching this past season, I never made it to the last handful of episodes. Hmm.

Based on my reactions and change of opinion of these relationships that I started out liking and wound up hating from other shows, I suspect if the DSR had come to fruition and was written poorly that I would have stopped supporting and liking the relationship. Based on my other experiences I do think even with my loss of liking for the relationship that I'd still be able to look back before the DSR had happened and still enjoy what made me enjoy the idea of a relationship between them in the first place, but as with the other examples I don't think that I'd ever go back to fully liking it or supporting it. It would be tarnished in my mind.

Fortunately, we will never know for sure because TPTB will never split up Mulder and Scully and pair up Doggett and Scully with only a (possible) third movie left to go. I'm glad that the DSR never got the chance to thrive as I have enjoyed reading in fanfic. I do not think Carter or anyone writing for TXF (under Carter's control) can write relationships well in the world of TXF.

At the end of the day, I still wish that the romantic coupling of Mulder/Scully had never happened, as it has tarnished my enjoyment of the series as a whole. I still believe TXF world is not the right fit for romantic relationships and stories about a relationship between Mulder and Scully - outside of their strong friendship and their professional partnership. To me, TXF was not about romance and relationships, it was about FBI agents investigating the paranormal and doing their best to uncover government conspiracies and expose a plan of alien colonization. That is TXF to me, nothing more, nothing less. Yes, of course, there would be character progression and deepening personal relationships between the main characters, but I don't think that it was necessary to turn that into a romantic relationship. TXF left me feeling very disappointed because I felt that it had strayed away from the real stories of the show (not as far as "Chuck" has gone, OMG).

I also think that the refocus of the show to the relationship between Mulder and Scully (which, let's face it, was really all IWTB was about - it's sad, but when a Noromo can say that the most interesting scenes of IWTB were scenes with Mulder and Scully, and NOT the casefile - that's a bad sign - I still dislike the movie and what happened with Mulder and Scully, but I think you get my point). What was I saying? I think that the focus on the MSR that Carter and most fans of TXF have taken in recent years has reduced many, too many, online discussions about the series to simple MSR discussions, or other relationship (vs. MSR) debates. When TXF began in 1993 I don't believe a focus on any romantic relationship was what Carter thought his show would be remembered for.

I have to say that my answer to your question almost surprised me. Before you had asked me this question I hadn't even given it any thought. At least if the DSR had happened and had been poorly written I know that I'd still be able to look back at times before they hooked up and still enjoy what made me like the pairing in the first place.

I hope this little mini-essay response makes sense. Thank you for asking the question, it helps me understand myself as a fan when it comes to any TV show and poorly written relationships.
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Re: What if DSR was written poorly?

Post by Rey Solo on Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:35 pm

Good essay, sis!
First I'd like to point out that this persons question-answer bit is annoying. This is how many "fans" have a mis-representation of you because they stick words in your mouth, like saying you would still defend DSR if it were written poorly because you believe in it. I'd like to meet this person and ask them if they know anything about you and if they can answer my questions about you before sticking words in your mouth. Because let's face it, I'm the only person in the world who would do that and be right as I am your sister.

Now to answer the question. If DSR had been written poorly, I would not support it. I have a liking for quality -- you stated many of my same opinions on shows, especially "Chuck". I like to see something that is interesting and now to gain/keep "viewership" of a series. You're example of Chuck/Sarah was exactly what came to mind. I loved their UST and Chuck's crush on Sarah in the first couple of season, but when the story telling came to wedding planning and crap like that and not the spy stories, I don't give a fuck. This past season of "Chuck" was hard to even WANT to tune in for -- even with Adam Baldwin, which is the only reason I bought the damn thing because he's so very very pretty. It's all shallow reasons for me now because I don't give a damn about the stories because there are no stories left to tell.

But yes, I would not support nor would I like Doggett/Scully if they were poorly written. Hell, I have a hard time liking characters on their own when they are written poorly -- the reason I don't want Doggett in any rolleyes third X-Files movie.

I don't believe, nor do I support any cheapened relationship or character.

I like quality and that's what I'll stand behind.
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Re: What if DSR was written poorly?

Post by Cassiopeia on Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:20 am

I prefer quality writing over "getting my way". I guess that makes me different than the majority of the MSR 'shippers who don't care about the quality because they get to gawk at the M/S relationship, obviously not giving a damn about the crap writing that hooked M&S up in the first place, and then continued on in their "development" of their relationship.

And yeah, I hate that this particular person decided to assume he/she knew what my answer would be, and answered the question for me before even hearing what I had to say about it first. Gurrrrrrrrg!

I'm the same way with poorly written characters - fortunately for TXF they had writers outside of just Chris Carter who helped develop Mulder and Scully in the earlier years (Morgan & Wong, Gordon & Gansa, etc.) so because of those writers I was able to like the characters before piss poor writing/character development (by Carter - the control freak) became the norm. Sure, other writers did well with writing the characters in the later seasons, but it was always the Carter episodes that were the worst.

That's why I can never list TXF as one of the best series ever produced, it failed on so many levels because of poor writing, plotting, etc.

Again, I prefer quality over "getting my way".
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Re: What if DSR was written poorly?

Post by Rey Solo on Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:14 pm

Sometimes it's more fun NOT to get your way. smile Quality over whining!
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Re: What if DSR was written poorly?

Post by gorgclaud on Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:10 pm

I just find the actual question to you a side dig at you. Basically you tend to moan about the MSR thing turning sour and so, in some ways they are saying these MSR fans still love MSR even when it was written badly and thats what you would do with DSR...they are assuming you would like DSR if written like crap just cause they like MSR when so many points have been pointed out to them about how badly written it was.

Its a pretty simple answer...poor writing? How can any one enjoy poor writing??!! Its like asking me if Babyface wrote a crap song would I still love it just cause I love everything he does? NO!!!

I can almost imagine DSR written badly too if that relationship ever got very far. I do think that the reasons MSR failed so badly was because it was on a shakey ground to begin with and I think GA and DD lost interest in working on their on-screen chemistry, so Im not sure if its COMPLETELY down to writing. And saying this, I think DSR have a lot of spark that even crappy scripts wouldnt stop that fire in a sense. But, its like I think Doggett was written poorly in season 9 and thus dont enjoy him that much in that season.

And I'm not sure that MSR was written poorly, I just think the actual decision to make them a couple was the wrong move and like you said, to focus on that and not the cases was dumb...and I dont think Carter can see how unrealistic their relationship is. But there were many moments written between them that were funny, marriage like bickering and loving. Its the actual GOING THROUGH with making them a couple that was POOR.
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Re: What if DSR was written poorly?

Post by Cassiopeia on Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:04 pm

gorgclaud wrote:I just find the actual question to you a side dig at you. Basically you tend to moan about the MSR thing turning sour and so, in some ways they are saying these MSR fans still love MSR even when it was written badly and thats what you would do with DSR...they are assuming you would like DSR if written like crap just cause they like MSR when so many points have been pointed out to them about how badly written it was.

*nods head* I agree. They assumed that just because they still like MSR despite piss poor writing that I would still enjoy DSR if it happened and was written poorly. This is how wrong ideas about me get spread around, people just assume that they know what I think and what my opinions are - when in reality they have no idea, no idea at all. Again, I prefer quality over "getting my way".

Its a pretty simple answer...poor writing? How can any one enjoy poor writing??!! Its like asking me if Babyface wrote a crap song would I still love it just cause I love everything he does? NO!!!

Exactly! Madonna has a song or two that I can't stand, and I love her, admire her, and will always buy her albums, but I'm not going to like a crap song just because I'm "supposed to" love everything she does simply because I've loved her music for years.

I can almost imagine DSR written badly too if that relationship ever got very far. I do think that the reasons MSR failed so badly was because it was on a shakey ground to begin with and I think GA and DD lost interest in working on their on-screen chemistry, so Im not sure if its COMPLETELY down to writing. And saying this, I think DSR have a lot of spark that even crappy scripts wouldnt stop that fire in a sense. But, its like I think Doggett was written poorly in season 9 and thus dont enjoy him that much in that season.

I would expect the DSR to be written poorly by Chris Carter and others under his control at 1013 Productions if they had chosen to make DSR happen. Carter CANNOT write realistic and respectful relationships, period. That's the way I see it. I never want him to touch DSR because he would destroy it.

I too think that Gillian and David stopped caring about working on maintaining believability in their chemistry in the later years of the show, it diminished and then the writers had to try to force it out by including it in either their scripts or by having the director force it on the viewers. It was magical when it was natural between them, it was unrealistic and insincere once the writers/directors began to add it to the episodes. What a disappointment. The UST between them was so good in the early years.

Doggett/Scully did have a lot of spark between them (yay for the great chemistry between Robert and Gillian) even in the so-so episodes of season 8, their chemistry wasn't written in those episodes, but it still shined simply because Robert and Gillian worked so well off of each other and had a natural chemistry between them. In that case - when UST or chemistry is not deliberately being included in written form - the quality of writing for the episode had no effect on the chemistry between the actors/characters because it was naturally there.

And I'm not sure that MSR was written poorly, I just think the actual decision to make them a couple was the wrong move and like you said, to focus on that and not the cases was dumb...and I dont think Carter can see how unrealistic their relationship is. But there were many moments written between them that were funny, marriage like bickering and loving. Its the actual GOING THROUGH with making them a couple that was POOR.

I do agree that it was a bad decision to make Mulder and Scully a couple, but I do think their relationship was written poorly. Once they were together that's when we saw the major deterioration of the Mulder and Scully characters. Scully became dependent on Mulder, he became more disrespectful of her, she gave up her life dreams/goals/desires for him, etc., etc. That's poor writing if you want to make a relationship appeal to people - and sadly a lot of 'shippers actually look to the MSR as an ideal. Thankfully I do know a 'shipper (in RL - a good friend of mine) who hates that the relationship happened and how they are together as a couple, but despite that she can still look back and enjoy what made her love the MSR in the first place. I'm so glad that there are rational 'shippers like this out there - if it weren't for her I'd probably think all 'shippers were deluded to think that MSR is great from beginning "Pilot" to end "I Want To Believe".

Basically where there's one, there has to be more like her out there.
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Re: What if DSR was written poorly?

Post by gorgclaud on Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:26 pm

Dana Doggett wrote:I do think their relationship was written poorly. Once they were together that's when we saw the major deterioration of the Mulder and Scully characters. Scully became dependent on Mulder, he became more disrespectful of her, she gave up her life dreams/goals/desires for him, etc., etc. That's poor writing if you want to make a relationship appeal to people - and sadly a lot of 'shippers actually look to the MSR as an ideal.
Yep, I totally agree, this is poor writing. I guess I was only really thinking about their moments together, the scenes, not so much their character development within the relationship. Though if I really think about their scenes, the way they were written in season 8 in the flashbacks in Per Manum and in Three Words and the way their scenes were written in IWTB was awful.

OK, its established. Just piss poor writing and bad idea.
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