QUICK! React!

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QUICK! React!

Post by Cassiopeia on Mon 07 Feb 2011, 14:23

QUICK! React! What are your first thoughts when you see this scene?

"Per Manum"


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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by gorgclaud on Sat 12 Feb 2011, 17:37

awesome thread

first thoughts is he is madly in love with her and she only just stopped to see how much of a good guy he is for her. All the drama has calmed down, she has stopped thinking of herself and of Mulder and is now seriously thinking of this guy who has been there for her for a while but she is only really realising it now.

He has to repeat her that he was there to help...as if she didnt listen those times before, so for me i think his love for her is deeper now. His love doesnt flinch here, it just gets stronger knowing she is pregnant.
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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by Cassiopeia on Sat 12 Feb 2011, 18:56

gorgclaud wrote:awesome thread

first thoughts is he is madly in love with her and she only just stopped to see how much of a good guy he is for her. All the drama has calmed down, she has stopped thinking of herself and of Mulder and is now seriously thinking of this guy who has been there for her for a while but she is only really realising it now.

He has to repeat her that he was there to help...as if she didnt listen those times before, so for me i think his love for her is deeper now. His love doesnt flinch here, it just gets stronger knowing she is pregnant.

LOL You have so much more thought than me! My first reaction is "He's touching her shoulder! He's touching her shoulder! HE'S LINGERING HIS TOUCH ON HER SHOULDER! OMG!" LOL

It's a great scene for DSR fans :) Totally. Sad that she had to put herself in harm's way in order to come to the realization that Doggett is there for her (and always will be), and that the world does not revolve around her and Mulder only. I think that she saw the pain in his face, the hurt (pain may not be the right emotion here), that she caused him when he realized that she had kept her pregnancy from him, not just as a friend, but especially as her partner. The one person in the world she can trust with her life.
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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by gorgclaud on Sat 12 Feb 2011, 19:15

Dana Doggett wrote:
gorgclaud wrote:awesome thread

first thoughts is he is madly in love with her and she only just stopped to see how much of a good guy he is for her. All the drama has calmed down, she has stopped thinking of herself and of Mulder and is now seriously thinking of this guy who has been there for her for a while but she is only really realising it now.

He has to repeat her that he was there to help...as if she didnt listen those times before, so for me i think his love for her is deeper now. His love doesnt flinch here, it just gets stronger knowing she is pregnant.

LOL You have so much more thought than me! My first reaction is "He's touching her shoulder! He's touching her shoulder! HE'S LINGERING HIS TOUCH ON HER SHOULDER! OMG!" LOL

It's a great scene for DSR fans :) Totally. Sad that she had to put herself in harm's way in order to come to the realization that Doggett is there for her (and always will be), and that the world does not revolve around her and Mulder only. I think that she saw the pain in his face, the hurt (pain may not be the right emotion here), that she caused him when he realized that she had kept her pregnancy from him, not just as a friend, but especially as her partner. The one person in the world she can trust with her life.


Totally. Yes I think she sees the pain in his face but also in his voice. So soft and so tender. He really means what he is saying to her. Sometimes it does take someone saving you to really see how much they care.

I think the Arm Love here is showing how much he loves her. Thats why when he touches her she turns to look at him more intently...she is realising something in this touch he is giving her...she is realising his is serious now.

Just think, through all they speak about here, no matter what disagreement they have...he says "at least you're ok" at the end of it all. That really IS all he cares about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cloud9 And unaffraid he asks "why didnt you tell me" but like a lost lamb. But he is so sure in his loyalty to her that he must pick her up on how she appears to not trust him...how in his mind, he has to change that....
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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by Cassiopeia on Sat 12 Feb 2011, 19:24

Is this scene in "Per Manum" the first time we get some Arm Love? Because if it is, then his touch and her look at him as it happens, mean a lot for their partnership, friendship and potential relationship, for all the reasons you mentioned above.

And you are right, at the end of the day all he cares about is that she's okay and he's there to help her whenever need be. His loyalty to her is unchallenged, nothing is more important to him than her.
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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by gorgclaud on Mon 14 Feb 2011, 11:36

I love his certainty of how he feels about her. I wonder when exactly he was so certain?

I know we have talked about this scene before and all the emotions he was feeling as he waited for her to wake up...so much going through his head about how many times she didnt tell him, how he saw the signs, how it means he cannot be with her cause she is probably having Mulders baby.

Interesting though that he does not ask her who the father is. I mean, i cant imagine him asking her outright. But perhaps in a line like "its Mulder's isnt it?" Maybe by her determination to find Mulder so much its a given to him?
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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by Cassiopeia on Tue 15 Feb 2011, 13:20

Hmm, I'm not sure when he was certain of his feelings for her. For sure it had to be before this episode.

I'm sure that on one hand he felt betrayed since his partner didn't tell him of such important information that should be known for a team working in the field, but then on the other hand I'm sure he understood why she kept it a secret from everyone (not just him - Skinner, IIRC, was the only other person who knew). I think he struggled at first with not taking it personally, but then just accepted her decision (because he respects her and therefore would respect her decision not to tell him).

He never needed to ask her who the father was, like you said he probably figured that it was Mulder. I, on the other hand, have a very hard time accepting that as the truth considering the timeline... of course Doggett didn't know of the timeline thing... but then he met her in June 2000 and by December of that year she still wasn't showing so... what a mess.
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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by gorgclaud on Mon 21 Feb 2011, 09:03

yeah the timeline is a mess,

yes he oozes respect for her, so he probably figured it was Mulder anyways and wouldnt ask her anyways out of respect. But for a man who is deep in love some men can overcome respect and just want answers out of anger. I think through out Per Manum he is so so so so restrained around her. She is really harsh with him, cold, distant, frustrating and barely says anything but you can see his anger with it all.

I think he was certain he loved her in Deadalive personally. Seeing her react to Mulder's return and knowing there was no way in hell he had a chance. And yet no way of going back on his love for her now.

Before that i think he loved her but i dont think he really knew it. Or it was lust or flirting with fire. I think cause she kept her distance from him, she challeneged him as a partner, she made him mad with all her secrets. Once that was over in PerManum, then finding Mulder in TINH, there was so much going on and i dont think it was till things settled after Mulder died that he finally really knew how he felt.
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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by Cassiopeia on Tue 22 Feb 2011, 11:09

Hmmm, yeah I can see how he would come to a realization of his love for her during the time that Mulder was six feet underground, buried in a coffin, rotting, and his body given embalming fluid which would kill him even if he only seemed to be dead. Nevermind he was probably autopsied (as per proceedure after a suspicious death, especially of a federal agent), and he probably didn't have any of his major organs inside of him too. Yeah, someone explain to me again HOW he was able to return from the dead if he was in fact human?

I wonder what went through Doggett's mind as he watched Scully go goo goo ga ga over a man who had recently been a rotting corpse. If she was in love with that, there really is no way in Hell that she'd be able to love a man who is alive and well (and has all his vital organs). I know for sure my opinion of Scully diminished after "DeadAlive", I sometimes wonder why Doggett's didn't.

My favorite scene in "Per Manum" (aside from the Arm Love of the last scene) is when Doggett is called early in the morning to meet with Scully (and Skinner) at the diner. It is another one of those parternship-growing moments for the both of them. Doggett realizes just how much she doesn't want to trust him, and she sees how hurt he is by this (which I think eventually prompts her into trusting him much, much more after this). Doesn't Skinner say smthg to stand up for Doggett in this ep? I don't remember.
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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by gorgclaud on Sat 12 Mar 2011, 16:11

Dana Doggett wrote:

My favorite scene in "Per Manum" (aside from the Arm Love of the last scene) is when Doggett is called early in the morning to meet with Scully (and Skinner) at the diner. It is another one of those parternship-growing moments for the both of them. Doggett realizes just how much she doesn't want to trust him, and she sees how hurt he is by this (which I think eventually prompts her into trusting him much, much more after this). Doesn't Skinner say smthg to stand up for Doggett in this ep? I don't remember.

Yeah Skinner says to Scully that she HAS to tell Doggett the truth. She is being all annoying and cold to everyone in this scene, especially Doggett.."can I ask why?" - "No". OKAY THEN! blink Poor Doggett and he does show HOW hurt he is - he doesnt hide it or act cool. He is pissed and upset, so he basically doesnt see any point in having this conversation any longer, cause it isnt much of one, and walks off, pissed. But more on this when we get to this ep in the Re-watch, cause as much as Per Manum has a lot of Shipper crap, its over flowing with a hell load of DSR awesomeness too. cheer
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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by Cassiopeia on Sat 12 Mar 2011, 23:17

I'd say it has more DSRy stuff than MSR stuff.
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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by gorgclaud on Sun 13 Mar 2011, 10:34

Yeah it is really. But you know the shippers love all those flashback scenes of Mulder and Scully...to be fair, they are probably the only times in season 8 I like Mulder and think those scenes are generally 'nice' but dont think they make sense or are realistic. .. the DSR stuff in that ep is far greater in my mind.
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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by Cassiopeia on Sun 13 Mar 2011, 16:15

LOL I can only remember one flashback scene with M&S (where she tells him in vitro failed and IIRC they hug), there are others? I just remember thinking "this seems like 'shipper fanfic" when I watched that flashback scene, because honestly, I really think that was what happened with M&S scenes once they got together, it all turned into bad 'shipper fanfic.

I prefer the DSR stuff in "Per Manum" and of course the Knowle Rohrer scenes wub
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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by gorgclaud on Sun 13 Mar 2011, 17:44

Yeah, it did seem so weird to see those scenes, cause you can see why those scenes did not exist in season7, cause then X files would totally have been off track.

If i remember right, I think there were 3 flashbacks. OR two.
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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by Cassiopeia on Sun 13 Mar 2011, 23:51

Maybe we'll remember to count the flashbacks when it comes up in the rewatch LOL

QUICK! React!

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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by Cassiopeia on Sun 13 Mar 2011, 23:52

My first thought with this pic from "Surekill" is... is Doggett looking at her while shaking the hand of that other guy in the room? LOL
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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by gorgclaud on Mon 14 Mar 2011, 09:30

I just think of how he commands authority around her and yet still manages to treat her like an equal and he looks really happy to have her to himself, introducing her as his partner. Awwww..

And my first thoughts also are....god damn he fancies her badly. biggrin
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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by Cassiopeia on Mon 14 Mar 2011, 12:37

I wonder if this command of authority is just the strong screen presence that Robert has. When he's on screen he demands your attention, that's part of his talent. Of course I'm sure that he played up Doggett's experience as a law enforcement officer so it probably really shines through because of that.

I'm finding it absolutely wonderful to discover just how early on in s8 he fancies her. I mean we're talking in the s8 rewatch thread about his attraction to her before we hit the second disc of the DVD set!
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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by gorgclaud on Mon 14 Mar 2011, 15:11

I know, I thought when i just thought about it in memory that he started to fancy her later but since the rewatch I am finding he DEFINATELY fancies her really early on. I think fancy in Within and Without, curious in Patience and then some real feelings going on in Roadrunners. Absense makes the heart grows stronger and then to save her like he did. LOVE IT>

I think you are so right that RP demands attention when he is on screen, even in any role in any awful film! But also Doggett is a manly man, and he just dominates in a sexy way for me.
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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by Cassiopeia on Mon 14 Mar 2011, 15:40

I really think the first time he was attracted to her was when she threw water in his face and stormed off.

In that Dreamwatch magazine interview with Robert he says that Doggett really digs that! LOL I'm scanning the article now so I can post it later today.

I think he had initial physical attraction to her in their first scene in "Within", but it grew into this emotional connection/attraction to her by the end of "Without", I think the next hint of his attraction/love for her could quite possibly show us signs that he's fallen head over heels for her. Maybe... the next would have been in "Patience"...
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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by gorgclaud on Tue 15 Mar 2011, 13:46

ITA, i think he did "dig that" in Without, feisty & strong.

And then to see her crying on the floor, he picks her up and craddles her, yes there is love there....it just escalates further as the eps go on.
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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by Cassiopeia on Tue 15 Mar 2011, 14:01

Poor Doggett, his heart never stood a chance! I think it was his destiny to fall in love with her ♥ If only we could have seen it all play out to fruition (that's what fanfic is for).
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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by gorgclaud on Tue 15 Mar 2011, 14:13

Dana Doggett wrote:Poor Doggett, his heart never stood a chance! I think it was his destiny to fall in love with her ♥️ If only we could have seen it all play out to fruition (that's what fanfic is for).

and vids...man i always wish it did....I think you are right that the way it didnt end the way I wanted is why I still obsess over these things.

Perhaps the reason why DSR is so romantic to me, is BECAUSE his heart never stood a chance. cry
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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by Cassiopeia on Tue 15 Mar 2011, 14:25

Absence makes the heart grow fonder, perhaps it's the same for Doggett's situation and the love he has for Scully. I often wonder if he'd be able to let go of those feelings all these years later, and if he was able to move on and meet another woman who would make him happy, or if he's the kind of man who would hang onto the love he has for a woman he can never have. I think Spotnitz actually commented on how Doggett is the type to want something he can't have (there's a thread in here somewhere with this).

I would love for him to have worked things out with Barbara and remarried her (if we see him again in XF3), but then even if he did... would seeing Scully again after all this time stir up his love for her?

I do think that DSR is so romantic to us because it never stood a chance. Perhaps we're suckers for romantic/unrequited love/angst...
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Re: QUICK! React!

Post by gorgclaud on Tue 15 Mar 2011, 14:44

Dana Doggett wrote:Absence makes the heart grow fonder, perhaps it's the same for Doggett's situation and the love he has for Scully. I often wonder if he'd be able to let go of those feelings all these years later, and if he was able to move on and meet another woman who would make him happy, or if he's the kind of man who would hang onto the love he has for a woman he can never have. I think Spotnitz actually commented on how Doggett is the type to want something he can't have (there's a thread in here somewhere with this).

I would love for him to have worked things out with Barbara and remarried her (if we see him again in XF3), but then even if he did... would seeing Scully again after all this time stir up his love for her?

I do think that DSR is so romantic to us because it never stood a chance. Perhaps we're suckers for romantic/unrequited love/angst...

I think when we 1st saw Doggett, he was cool and confident, and alone. I dont think Barbara and him could work again, although I would like it because its sad they split. But once he experienced Scully, I think that was a more intense love for him and harder to let go of. I think he would be content to live life alone, in heart break over Scully. Always thinking if she ever needed him one day, he would be free and available for her....
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